In this episode of Living in Calgary, Professional chef Michael Allemeier shares his story on why he moved to Calgary and how he is raising his boys by giving them the support that they need. We also looked back on his career as a chef and what it takes to survive a professional kitchen.
Right folks. It's Brian Howard. And here we are with another edition of living in Calgary. My hobby is really enjoy this. Getting to connect with great people like Michael Ulmer. Am I saying your last name correctly? It's pretty close. Brian it's Alan Meyer Elmira. So my area self in the mess. So Michael is a former chef of Bishop's restaurant in Vancouver.
Mission hill family has stayed in the Oakenoggen and Tatro here in Calgary. I have a story about my last interview nursery separate yet grow for you later on Michael, currently culinary educator at Sage, and is one of five master chefs in Canada, Michael. Great to have you on the show. Happy to be here.
Thank you very much. And I was referred to Michael from our mutual friend, James Kendall, who we both know from the cycling community. And, um, and uh, he said, Hey, you should have [00:01:00] Michael on the show. And I said, darn right, I will, uh, read your background a little bit. And, uh, so happy to connect with you here today.
After a week of kind of chasing you down. Absolute pleasure. It's it's really, it's really shows what a small city and what a small community we are. I mean, James and I have known each other for years from the Oakenoggen and yeah, we have a lot of common ground for sure. That's great. Um, Michael, maybe it's going to, um, touch base, uh, sort of your Calgary story a little bit in your work as a chef tier chefs in inner city and the educator at Sage, how do you happen to come into the living room?
Well, you know, what's interesting is I've actually moved to Calgary twice. So this is my, my, my second time that I've actually resided in Calgary. And what's interesting is both times, um, Calgary attracted us just because we always found it to be a great city to raise a family. So we have two boys there they're quite a bit older now.
Um, but in 19, I only ate, uh, had an opportunity to come [00:02:00] aboard and, and head up the kitchens at . And at the time we were living in, in BC and my wife and I, you know, we're kind of looking for a new environment, a younger city, uh, a place where a young family could start out and, and, you know, Calgary in 1998, we want to rewind then, um, it was a very different city.
It was smaller. Um, housing was a lot more affordable and honestly that was. Big factor. Like we were in our, in our early thirties and we had a, you know, the concept of being able to afford a house, to raise a family that was really, really appealing. And then I was super excited. What was, uh, with what was happening at Seattle as well.
And it was, I just saw great potential in the restaurants, so it really checks a lot of boxes and, and, uh, um, had fun at Seattle. I really did. Um, but my time was over and was time to move on and, you know, um, the life of a chef. Means that you need to travel in order for your career to really have some depth and be quite successful traveling as almost a prerequisite.
[00:03:00] So I've always kind of followed the great opportunities. Um, and we had an opportunity to move to the Oakenoggen. Then it was, uh, it was on my bucket list of career objectives. To work in a winery, food and wine is a very, very big part of who I am. And I really wanted that experience to work in a winery, work arounds, um, wines work with a wine making team.
And, uh, I mean, you look at the Oakenoggen with its with its bounty of ingredients. Um, it was a very, very easy decision when that opportunity presented itself. So we went to the Oakenoggen and then what year was that? That you went? Oh, so we, we moved to the Alcon Oakenoggen. That would have been 2003. 2003 to 2009.
I was the chef at mission hill winery. And if you've ever been to that winery, it's, it's a stunning, stunning winery. It really is not only the wines world-class. Um, but the sense of hospitality is like world-class as well. And the [00:04:00] so many different options for the guests to kind of experience wine country, then.
Um, to me, it was probably one of the proudest accomplishments of my career is being part of that team. And we did so much every vintage, you know, every new year that we had, we grew the FMB program and it was, it was just stunning. We never rested on our laurels. And it was just an exciting time to build and grow.
Um, but you know, as all good things do come to an ends. And, and I was, you know, in my mid forties and, and, and feeling a career of working 80 to a hundred hours a week, you know, my knees, my back, everything else. And I was like, there's gotta be a smarter way to do this. Right. And I need to start working with my minds more.
And my body less is the reality. Plus I needed to invest in my kids as well. You know, it's, it's a demanding, um, career as far as your time goes. And, and I was really not being a great dad because I was always slave to the kitchen. And when the opportunity [00:05:00] presented itself, it was a slam dunk because we got to return to a community, a city that we knew, and we loved, we had lots of great friends.
Um, it just checks a lot of really great boxes. It was still a young city, a vibrant city, still a great environment to raise, uh, raise a family. And, and honestly I think the decision to, to get into education and use all of my experience, which my career has given me, um, has been. The best decisions ever.
And obviously a board us back to Calgary, it was like, you know, coming home again. And I kind of broke my Cardinal rule and my Cardinal rule in life was like, you never go back to a place. Right. And, you know, Calgary was, had had enough appeal and enough great things, um, to draw us back again. And it's, you know, it just, it, it truly feels like our.
And was that around 2009, 10 that you came back to? I would've, it would've been, uh, I remember the day very, very vividly, still August 4th, 2009 is when I started. [00:06:00] So we had a summer move. So as a realtor, I can't help but think like, okay, 2009, the market in Calgary in 2006 and seven when crazy ballistic.
And then it crashed in October, 2008, like he did it on the world. And then 2009, it was back low again. So where did you move to in Calgary? Where did you settle? What, so this is, you know, what's interesting. We have owned three homes in Calgary. Um, uh, in 1998, we, we, uh, bought a house in hidden valley. Now that neighborhood was completely different from what you see nowadays as the city has expanded, um, a lot.
And then, um, it was a little too new for us, so we wanted a bit more of an established neighborhood and we moved down to the south to south ward. And we got to move. Yeah, well, you know, it's young family and we just wanted, uh, we just, we just wanted more of an established neighborhood, older trees. Right.
And it's just, it's a, we really enjoyed our it's our time in Southwood. It was, you know, a short walk to the reservoir and it was, [00:07:00] we would've, that would've been. Two thousands. So we weren't in hidden valley for very long, maybe two years. And then, uh, Southwood, we love to, it was just a great established older neighborhood, loved the trees, um, and just loved, just loved that neighborhood.
And then, um, when we moved back to Calgary in 2009, um, we live in valley Ridge and, uh, we so completely different neighborhood once again, can we, we had a lot, we had a lot of purpose. We, first of all, A lot of our friends that were moving back into this community kind of lived in this part of the town. So it was, it was nice having that kind of moving back.
So you can kind of just almost like pick up and resume your life, where you left off without having to do tons of commuting. Um, the best thing, one of the best things I love about living in valley originally probably shouldn't share this with people. Well, most people don't know it close. That definitely is one of them.[00:08:00]
We're 20 minutes from downtown. Right. And it's, it's awesome. But you're right. That brand new climbing gym in our backyard is amazing. It's access to the mountains as well. And when I'm not working, I like to spend as much time as I can in the mountains, whether I'm cross country skiing in the winter, whether I'm climbing in the summer, I'm paddling or just, you know, multi-day back country trips.
Um, this last summer we did a. Five days, four nights on the great divide trail. And that was, that was an epic, epic adventure, basically, you know, five days traveling on the continental divine from, from Washington park up to castle ski resort, um, wilderness, wilderness, camping the whole way. And you know, so, so that's what I love to do when I'm not working is spending time in the mountains.
So, so literally living 50 minutes from Canmore is, is not a, it's not a bad thing actually. It gets a circumnavigate, all that city traffic you mentioned. Um, [00:09:00] we were hoping to maybe do the show on Sunday. I think this best Sunday. And you mentioned climbing and you mentioned your family and kids, or your voice is still with you or the client.
I assume they're in their twenties or a hundred. Uh, so, so the youngest, the baby is now 17 and in grade 12 high school, um, he's, he's the climber, the older one calling he's at UFC studying Asian languages. Um, And he's tried climbing it's, it's not his jammy, the Heights and the exposure. And, and I get it.
It's not for everyone. It's something you truly need to be comfortable with. Um, but Laughlin would have been probably grade nine, uh, for his PE class, the Jew, the climbing gym right across from valley rigid, opened up and, uh, he's his PE class went and he came back just like vibrating. He just like, I love climbing.
It's awesome. And I was like, well, I don't know if you know this about your dad, but when I lived in Vancouver, I was in my twenties. I was an avid climber. So when I wasn't in the kitchens at [00:10:00] bishops, you'd find me in Squamish hanging off of the chief or the apron or his smoke Bluffs, or, you know, wherever, you know, there's, this to me, Squamish is, is, is ground zero for Canadian climbing.
It is. By far it's world-class caliber. So it was really great. I thought I'd might my, my days of climbing were done and here I am in my fifties picking it up again. And, uh, I've never been as happy. Um, and just being able to do it with Laughlin and my wife Meredith, she climbs as well. So, um, when, when we can climb together, it's awesome.
And we put together a cohort of friends that are into it as well. And it's, it's, we've, we've got a rich community in that area. Cool. Um, let me ask you, like what strikes you about living in Calgary or about Calgary in general? Anything come to mind? I think the fact that it's a young city, it's a young city and it's a diverse city.
I think like us, we were not the, you know, the first people to realize that, Hey, this is a great place to raise a family. And for me, it's family [00:11:00] values, there's access to so many activities, great schools. Um, you know, we've got such a such diversity in. In the province about, you know, we've got Prairie's, we've got great agriculture, we've got the mountains.
Um, there's so much to do. There's so many activities to run your boys and my case, right. I've got two boys and, you know, boys need to be run, um, because they have all this energy and they can use it for good, or they gonna use it for bad. Right. So it's best to keep them busy and, and we've got those resources here.
So I think that was a, a big, um, attraction to come back to. Cool. This is kind of a little off topic, but fun. Nonetheless is sort of question. You mentioned your oldest boy is studying, I think Asian languages that you have that right. A guy like yourself. Maybe I'm going to say a pragmatist. If I know what that word means from South Africa originally, who does choose a skill such as, you know, becoming a chef where for sure you're going to have work all your life.
Are you, um, are you accepting of your son's choice of studies [00:12:00] and Asian studies? Like what will he do with that? You don't know for sure. Well, first and foremost, hundred percent agree. So Colin has, has always had a huge interest in manga and anime and things like that. And he came to us and he came to us in grade 11 and he was like, I want to learn how to speak Japanese.
And we're like, sure. Why not? So CBE has a night school program and there's a Japanese language school at a local high school. And so he started like, you know, taking Japanese lessons in nights. And he we've learned at an early age, he's got a bit of a gift for languages. Like we've taken him to Europe a couple of times.
And, and when he's over there, he was picking up language very, very quickly. And so, you know, he, like most young people had no idea what he wanted to do with his life. So when he came to us and said that, you know, there was this Japanese language. Um, program at UFC, um, basically you'd get a bachelor of arts in Asian language [00:13:00] studies.
Um, we were like, you know what? Investment in languages is not a waste of time. And you know what? I've been fortunate that I've been raised on three continents. Um, so I see the value in languages and, um, you know, I think the, the most important thing. As a parent is to support your children. And if they're passionate about something, um, they're going to do well in it.
And you know, we don't, honestly, I don't have an answer as to what he's going to do with it. Um, but I, I know I look at the economy and I look away, the world is going and it seems like economically a lot of stuff's shifting towards Asia. So any type of investments in Asian culture, to me, I see as a plus for his generation.
Um, and I think the, the goal for him is. He's going to be wrapping up this well, this, this academic year, um, is he wants to go to Japan and they've got something called the jet program where it's, uh, you go to Japan and you teach English. Um, it's a great program. It's a two year [00:14:00] commitment. The ability they put you in rural Japan somewhere, and you're fully immersed in that program.
So this is what he's going to do. That's a critical step to his success, I think, is to go and get that immersion and then see where it takes them. You know, the reality kind of see where the opportunity is and, and quite frankly, the way the world is right now. Um, I think you kind of take it day by day as well.
Right? Exactly. I'm talking about with the way the world is right now, and you've just spending your day, um, you know, as a educator, In culinary, it sounds like you were doing zoom meetings quite a bit of the day. Um, what, and, and having two boys, one in high school, these last couple of years in one finishing university this year, um, what's really easy for you these days.
And what's heard, um, in terms of, uh, just anything in general. Yeah, I know. Well, you know what the reality is? Everything seems hard. Well, yeah. Yes and no. Right. Um, what's [00:15:00] easy is making sure I find time to invest in myself. Right? I've that's been a very hard lesson for me being so driven, being so driven in my career and working all those crazy hours when the reality is for my first 25 years.
And industry the norm was 80 hours a week. That's kind of what a chef does. And in order for you to be successful, that's almost what you need to do to invest in your career. That way, if you're gonna run at the level, which I was running in right now, what I love about that is I've got a great ROI on that because I've been able to evolve all of that experience.
Into a secondary career of education. And now I get, I get the privilege and the responsibility of educating the next generation, which is amazing because one of my driving mentors is, is knowledges is like wealthy. Can't take it with you. So it's best to share it. And so now I have this balance in my life, which I never had before.
So it's [00:16:00] easy for me to invest in myself. Right. It's easy because if I'm buying. And I'm a better father. I'm a better husband, better friends. And I can, I could be better overall. Right. So finding that balance of investing in my health and my fitness and, and spending time with people I want to spend time with is important.
All right. Um, what's hard. These days is just uncertainty. You know, let's be honest. There is a tremendous amount of uncertainty out there. And, uh, you know, like we, my wife and I, we love traveling and our boys are at the age now where we can be a little bit more independence and, and we've had some great adventures with them, but what a, one of our values is traveling and we haven't, we haven't done a big trip since 2019, right.
May, 2019. And we went to Scotland. Um, and we're hoping that we can maybe, maybe get a trip to port. Next next year. And that's kind of our next place we want to go, but can we there's so much uncertainty, right? [00:17:00] I mean, especially with these new variants and you know, so, so staying positive is, is the work.
It really is. Right. So you break it down into manageable pieces and it's it's day by day, right? You always obviously have, have a vision and your eye on the future, but you got. Fluid, um, the, uh, you, uh, I assume you came with your parents to, from, uh, from South Africa to Canada, is that right? Roughly and, you know, we, we, we, we didn't directly come to Canada, so, um, we actually left, so a little bit of background history.
My father was German and my mother is English. And they were both down there working. And my mom tends to be, um, very active in, in, in social equality for lack of a better term. And, um, we left South Africa in 78 to us kind of shortly after the Soweto, uh, incidents, uh, was a very violent, bloody incidents.
And it just wasn't good. And my mom was like, you know what? This is no place to [00:18:00] raise kids with these values. Exactly. Yeah. So we, we had an opportunity to leave South Africa and go to Hong Kong. Uh, my father's work, uh, transferred him to Asia and we lived in Hong Kong for two years before immigrating to Canada in 1980 and, uh, to Toronto and spent a couple of years, two years in Toronto and then moved to Winnipeg to finish high school.
And I did my apprenticeship in Winnipeg of all places. So. Um, quite a, quite a bit of traveling Johannesburg, Hong Kong, Ferranto Winnipeg, and, uh, you know, all that traveling around the world, um, really kind of showed me that, that I enjoyed seeing the world. And also it was, it was the eighties we got out of a really rough, uh, Uh, recession back then.
And there was a lot of unemployment and, you know, culinary people need to eat. It seemed like something that was fairly recession proof and it also would, would help with my, my, uh, my Wonderlust, my ability, my, you know, [00:19:00] my desire to travel and see the world. So it checks, I checked a lot of boxes and, uh, and I just knew that I wasn't destined to, to head off to university.
It just wasn't who I am. Being more of a visual, tactile person at heart. Need, um, that sort of winding back into in this podcast. I joke a lot about, you know, with Calgarians. Like I kind of like to find out where there, whether it was living in the city, mostly if they're living in the north of the south and I joke often that once you choose one of those areas, you're not allowed to move anywhere else.
Like the bowl river. So retina, I mean, not north or south, you're not on the next. And so you're very unusual as a Calgarian who, uh, you know, as a, you're not a native Calgarian, but you have lived in the. These three very, very different communities, hidden valley, uh, Southwood and now valley Ridge Vining valley Ridge to me is almost like a secret of, uh, of Calgary.
Not that we want to keep it that way. Right. Can you comment a little bit on like, you know, your [00:20:00] time in the city and like the truth or lack of truth of that? Like as unique Calgarians are people in the city, they tend to stay. If they land in the north, they tend to stay there. Did they land in the south.
They tend to stay there. Any comment on that, you know what you, you hit it spot on. And it's funny, we've got quite a few friends in the south and they're always like, oh, we got to track up to the north. And exactly. So our big joke is yep. We live north of the wall. Right. So it's kind of like a little game of Thrones kind of reference there.
And it's like this big track. And honestly it isn't that, that, that big of a deal, um, What I do find, and in all of my time in Calgary, especially coming back, I noticed that the city has grown and there is a lot more congestion. And it is the reality is it is tougher getting, you know, from the north to the south.
That's why we're super excited about the, that, that last section of the ring road being put in. And it's literally being built outside of valley Ridge as we speak. And, uh, when. [00:21:00] Connection is done. I think getting down to the south, it's going to open up the city and it's going to open up the area. Um, I think in ways that we can't even imagine.
Right. And I think it's, it's, it's about 20 years late. Um, but I'm really, really happy. That's that's, uh, that, that piece of infrastructure is going in because I think it's going to make the city much smaller and much easier to get. Interesting, maybe it is a comment you said earlier on that, how, you know, you like value really?
Because of the, um, the, um, it's only 20 minutes to downtown, but isn't anywhere from Calgary, 20 minutes from anywhere. That's kind of my experience, but anyway, don't even bother commenting on that. What about the boom bust economy of Calgary? How does that affect you and the people around you? And do you save for a rainy day?
Well, first and foremost, always I, a core fundamental for me is you always pay yourself first. And I always do believe in saving for a rainy day, 100%. And you know what the boom bust is tough, especially in my work. You think about the [00:22:00] hospitality industry and the restaurant industry, and we're barometer of whether things are good in the city or not.
Right. And I mean, you know, when things have booming and people are like, you know, ordering, you know, thousand dollar bottles of wine, You know, big entrees life is great. Although as a restaurant server, it's brutal because you can't find any staff, um, because the pickings are so good and the opportunities are so good.
So you really need to treat your people well and, and, and, and really create an environment people want to come in. And then, yeah, it's like almost the polar opposite. You've got to work twice as hard when things turn around. And it's interesting because you see how the menus change when, when. Downturn.
Right. Um, all of a sudden you have, you know, less rack of lamb and less venison and less rib-eyes and there's more braised dishes, right. Instead of rack of lamb on the menu, it's like, you know, it's a braise chunk of lamb instead, right? So it's, it's, it's a better contribution from the business. It's a better menu price for the guests as well.
And I think restaurants are great [00:23:00] barometers. So as I mentioned about. The, the state of the economy. And you can tell almost by looking at the menu, how good the economy is. You know, if you see a lot of braised dishes, if you see things like meatballs, you know, you know that maybe the city's having a bit of a tougher time and if it's all Philly manual and rib-eyes, um, you know, things are rolling well, right.
Interesting. Um, today's December 1st and it's always doing a little, like an update on Calgary stats today, a little sort of video and you know, what was doing what's going on in the market. Um, and so currently, uh, just FYI, um, the, um, there is more sales in November, like the past 30 days or the last time there was as many sales was in November of 2005.
And, um, and I've been talking for the past month or two. I feel like we're in this point in Calgary or in Alberta, even of 2004, 2005, when prices were sort of low. And then all of a sudden it boomed. Uh, and the reason why I say that is [00:24:00] because in Canada this year, prices in Canada have gone up 18%. Like we're talking average prices all over this country.
Meanwhile, Alberta, it's only three and a half percent. Um, any, like, are you in terms of barometer of reading the market? Like, do you have any thoughts of what might happen to Calgary in the next one year, five years? Oh, you know what that's, that's, that's, I'm not really an economist, you know, if I am watching them for meatballs or, you know what, for me, I think, you know, kind of just with my experience of things, um, I think there's a lot of uncertainty.
Right now and markets don't like uncertainty, right? There's, we're kind of, I think, as a province where at a, at a tipping points, you know, we've always been known for our ability to produce energy. And the, and the reality is energy has really driven our economy for the longest time. And there's a lot of uncertainty is the reality about the energy sector, you know, where's it going?
Um, it has to evolve is, is the [00:25:00] reality. If, if you look at the international news and the way the world is going, We have to evolve. Right. And I think the sooner Alberta can diversify and, and, and kind of balance out our economy a little bit more. So we're not on these boom and bust cycles. I think that is gonna help a lot.
And, and this is just my opinion, right. And I think that is maybe. We're in this transition area and with that is uncertainty. And I think it's reflecting in the markets as such. Right. But it's interesting hearing that, that, that stats are good. And there's obviously there's movements and things are happening.
I think with all the lockdowns and all the restrictions we've had. People are really being a lot more introspective and they're looking at their environments a lot more and we've probably never spent as much time in our homes as we have in the last two years, there's less traveling. There's less socializing, there's less going out.
So all of a sudden your home is truly your castle and it's what protects you and saves your sanity. Um, [00:26:00] and so if it isn't perfect, I think people are making those moves. Right. And they're, you know, the reality is. People, you know, if, if, if your employments hasn't been effected, um, you're probably a little bit more cash plus because you're not spending as much.
So you can maybe invest a little bit more in your, in, in, in your residence at the end of the day. Nice. Yeah, that's just me. That's a Cook's perspective. I appreciate it. And it's a client perspective, but Michael sort of a pointed question. Why are you staying in Calgary or why are you not staying in Calgary or your boys are coming to, you know, the a in their twenties or it's still, you have a 17 year old, so maybe the decision isn't there yet, but any, any thoughts will you stay in Calgary or are you bolting as soon as this.
Yeah. You know, that's, that's a very interesting, um, question because, um, the address Cypad, so we've been in this house since 2009. Well, this is the longest address I've ever had in my life. [00:27:00] I've had, I've had, I've had 20, 27 addresses on three continents. All right. So I've moved a lot. And in fact, Um, I think it was year six in this house became the longest, um, residents I've ever had in my life is the reality.
So this is as stable as I've ever been in my life. And you know what, quite frankly, I kinda like it. You know, when you're young, you've got lots of energy, you know, I was always about, let's go here, let's go there. I always liked the adventure of moving in and the discovery of, of that adventure. Um, but the reality is, um, we are pretty settled here.
Great network of friends. Um, we are, we are mountain people. Um, there is a lot of great reasons, um, to stay where we are and you know, what the, the opportunities at Cedar are amazing. So it's been very good to me. They, they were, um, they really were behind me when I decided to, to go down the master chef road.
And, uh, they were very, very [00:28:00] supportive in that endeavor because that was arguably one of the hardest things I've done was a four year commitments. Uh, 11 exams to, to get through. And, um, you know, I, I think I really enjoy what I'm doing and I don't think I'm going to find what I'm doing elsewhere, if that makes sense.
So there's still, there's still great opportunities and my life is still rich. And as, and as long as I've got that richness in my life, um, I'm here. It sounds like you've lived a great rich life. What advice would you give to your younger self? Oh, don't sweat. The small stuff, honestly. It's, uh, I tend to be a natural worrier.
I tend to worry about a lot of things, especially all the smallest. And it's not worth it. So worth your, your mental health at the end of the day. And, uh, I would have also told myself to invest in, in Calgary at a much younger [00:29:00] age as well.
You know, I look at what we paid for our first house in hidden valley, um, compared to, you know, what's happening in, uh, in valley Ridge. And it's, it's, it's been kind of crazy. What's what Calgary is being through. I mean, you're no stranger to that. Exactly. Well, very good. Um, I can't help it. I just want to say Michael, you say don't sweat the small stuff.
Do you think you'd be in the place you were at right now without having sweat? The small stuff? There's so many years I can't help be skeptic on that. Yeah. And you know, I think it's a double-edged sword because it, it it's, it's that same anxiety that drives you. Yes. It's that? It's because there's lash lack of lack of satisfaction that drives us or push us like, but like where where's the, where's the balance, I suppose.
I agree. And it cause it's attention to detail. Right? So it's, it's something I always share with my students. The difference between good and bad. Well, it must be the details, right? [00:30:00] It's 200%, a hundred percent. And you know, I think the fact that I do Smith do do sweat the details. I think that's, that's obviously what's, what's helped drive, you know, um, your career life as well.
Yeah, no. Good, Michael, thanks so much to be on the show. If people want it to reach out in any way, what is the best way I've found you an Instagram myself, but what are some of the good ways people to follow or reach out? Yeah. You know what Instagram is, is definitely the most accessible way. Um, um, chef alimony.
Um, that's also my same handle on Twitter as well. Those are 10 of my, my two big social media platforms. Both are quite different. Um, and obviously on Instagram, I it's about sharing my passions and that's food and the outdoors. Um, those are the two things that I love to do. And, uh, so that's, that's always a great way to go chef Meyer.
Great. Well, we'll provide links in the show notes. Thanks so much again for being on the show. Absolute pleasure.